Hawko
From HTB
I've come from a non denominational pentecostal church that generally put a low priority on theology. The messages preached and songs they wrote there often contained whatever 'revelation' was currently on their heart, and rarely based on doctrine or put through any theological scrutiny. While I was in this church culture theology always seemed like a negative thing, something that prideful religious people used when they criticised our modern 'relevant' church.
More recently I've listened to preachers use theology as a beautiful and graceful tool for instruction. This type of teaching has really changed my viewpoint and I now see theology as a tool to guide, empower and protect believers, however I've also seen how people can use it pridefully, and divisively.
The church I attend now is Church of England and much more theologically rooted. The hymns they sing contain more theology than I would have heard in a month of sundays at my old church, and they are some of the most moving and poetic songs I've ever heard. The modern songs they sing seem to blend contemporary style with correct doctrine really well.
Anyway I'd like to hear your thoughts on this topic, so I've included some questions below.
Do you/does your church have a positive or negative view of theology?
How much care do you take to write songs that are theologically correct?
How do you handle controversial topics such as 'Christ came for all' vs. 'Christ came for many'? Another way to ask this question. Do you write from an arminian, or calvinistic perspective... or do you try to avoid these arguments all together?
"Do you/does your church have a positive or negative view of theology?"
Of course, there's no such thing as a church that doesn't think theologically- the question is whether it's any good or not at thinking theologically.
"Do you/does your church have a positive or negative view of theology?"
As above. There are too many folks in the church (and bands) who'd say 'hang on a mo' if there was bad theology in the tunes.
"How much care do you take to write songs that are theologically correct?"
Pretty much agree with Paul. We take care to try and ensure our songs are biblically sound, and as much of the inspiration for songwriting comes from the bible, this acts as a guide. Again, you want some flexibility in expression to help it be poetic and artistic, and as long as that doesn't contradict anything in scripture, think it's fine (cue debate on whether, "I am a tree")...
"How do you handle controversial topics such as 'Christ came for all' vs. 'Christ came for many'?"
It's tough enough writing a song as it is! We generally don't get into it. If it's of prime importance, it gets covered in the theological vetting.
Agree with the above - just to add in terms of controversial topics though, and topics in general - chances are not everyone is going to believe everyone else's theology 100%, but I find the core beliefs tend to be the same. If it's theologically scrutinised by those in leadership and they give it the all clear then I'd say generally speaking (obviously there may be exceptions) then it's ok in the context of that church.
Whether it holds up to the exact beliefs of another is another question entirely, but no-one's forcing anyone else to take the song on - so they can make their own minds up (and if they don't agree, write songs of their own!)
"How do you handle controversial topics such as 'Christ came for all' vs. 'Christ came for many'...Do you write from an arminian, or calvinistic perspective... or do you try to avoid these arguments all together?"
I think many people miss the awe inspiring beauty of this debate. God, being all powerful doesn't sacrifice His purposes for the free will of mankind. Yet, this same God, being full of love and mercy has somehow empowered and worked through the free will of mankind. How it works, I have no clue, but that it works is certainly an inspiring thing. I feel there is an underlying current to the classic debate which all can respond to...
I think when facing some of these difficult theological topics, worship leaders have a unique task of not ending the debate, but illuminating the awe inspiring character of God which exists within the debate. I used to avoid predestination vs. man's-choice all together, but I am begining to understand how worship can unify both "camps" into praise.
"I think many people miss the awe inspiring beauty of this debate."
I have to say Marc that I find your response quite exciting. It makes some sense to play it safe, but when there is so much poetry and mystery in something like the process of salvation (for example), it's enticing to tackle these ideas in song.
I like the idea that we shouldn't end the debate, or avoid the debate, but use poetry and biblical grounding to try and grasp more of the depth and breath of who God is. Through song we can push the boundaries of something that many shy away from. Thats what artists are supposed to do right? :)
Historically, songs have helped to teach and spread particular theological positions. Songs rarely (if ever!) result in a new or changed theological approach. Theology leads and song writers follow. That is particularly true now, where songs writer will often have little theological training, or be exposed to a fairly narrow range of theological positions.
Now there's no particular reason for it to be this way, but, as much as I like Marc's idea, it would take someone of exceptional theological and artistic skill to write songs that help to resolve theological differences and move the church in constructive new directions on issues that have remained unresolved for centuries. But, for anyone attempting it, all strength to your creative muscles!
hi there,
here's some thoughts:
Do you/does your church have a positive or negative view of theology?
i dont really understand the question?
theology is understanding God as far as i can tell, this can be done through Gods word and preaching, but can also be understood by looking at creation and seeing his hand on our lives. do you mean do people have a positive view of just the studying/reading side?
How much care do you take to write songs that are theologically correct?
i write songs with guys at www.resoundworship.org, we run all our lyrics past the tutors there, so we would argue that we take it very seriously. however, my one gripe with this question is, ultimately who decides what is theologically correct? there are many subjects that have been debated over the years by various people with theological qualifications like predestination v free will etc, who decides whos right? one persons theology is another persons heresy!
How do you handle controversial topics such as 'Christ came for all' vs. 'Christ came for many'? Another way to ask this question. Do you write from an arminian, or calvinistic perspective... or do you try to avoid these arguments all together?
generally i avoid the arguments when writing songs, although my own bias may well come through the lyrics on occassion.
God bless,
gav.
Hi Gav,
Some churches have a negative view of thinking about or studying theology. They would hold that it is simply a human attempt to understand God leading to a human construction of ideas about God. What we need instead is simply to be led by the Spirit, and not put our sinful human minds in the way of the Spirit's movement. "Knowledge puffs up" or "lean not on your own understanding" are two (I believe mis-quoted) bible references to support that idea.
You second question is a really good one, "Ultimately who decides what is theologically correct?"
Depends what you mean by theologically correct. A small group of people with some maturity should be able to root out serious departures from orthodox faith. (Jesus not being fully human or fully God for instance.) In matters of doctrine that aren't central, there is room for diverging opinions (how do God's sovereignty and human free will work together). Heresy is different from simply incorrect theology or differing opinions, otherwise we'd all be heretics.
good points paul,
there are people on both sides of the free will predestination debate and other debates like when Jesus will return (ie post tribulation, mid tribulation, or pre tribulation) who claim the other side are heretics sadly.
Gav.
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"Do you/does your church have a positive or negative view of theology?"
Mostly positive. Most of our church leadership, and some of our punters have formal theological training. I'm finishing up a theology degree this year.
"How much care do you take to write songs that are theologically correct?"
As much as I can. I like to run lyrics past a group of "advisors". But there's often a blurring of what makes good poetry and what is crystal clear theological doctrine. Putting the Chalcedonian definition to music wouldn't really work.
"How do you handle controversial topics such as 'Christ came for all' vs. 'Christ came for many'?"
Balance. Our church doesn't take an official stance on Calvinism v Arminianism (thankfully - I've never seen a debate on the subject be fruitful or end well, including on this site). So we can sing Wesley's hymns if we want to...