Michael
From Canterbury Baptist Church
I often find myself wondering the above - most sermons and talks in most churches, CUs and so on I've been to seem to end on a challenging note and to me there seems to more often than not be an underlying theme of "if you know you're not doing ok in this area, that's good, and you are actually ok because you've admitted it! If you think you are ok though in this area, you're just being complacent and that's BAD." On one specific occasion that phrase was pretty much spoken out loud!
Don't get me wrong, I'm all up for challenges and I enjoy being challenged on various areas because I think it's healthy, uplifting and often very helpful. If we were never challenged at all as Christians I think we would get into being complacent and I don't think that's a good thing at all. But do we have the tendency to take things a bit far in this respect and think that we all have to think we're struggling with pretty much everything? I've heard talks on topics that I know I'm actually doing fine with but still come out feeling like I have to be challenged otherwise I'm somehow missing the whole point! I think my main issue is that when this gets to extremes it seems to give off the impression that we somehow need to be good people to "buy" our way into heaven which is of course completely untrue - but if people latch onto that then unsurprisingly it can really be a dangerous thing to believe.
Has anyone else noticed similar things to this or is it just me?
"Kind of like Job's friends, who kept trying to get him to confess to some mysterious sin he hadn't committed!"
Great example, I hadn't thought of that but it's exactly what it can feel like!
one of the worst sermon topics for me for a long time has been talks on evanglelism. no dont get me wrong im very passionate about this and spend a lot of time and energy thinking/praying and trying to communicate the gospel to people. but to date ive had virtually no "success". ive invited people on alpha, to services, to christian camps, given people books, shared christian music with people and to date no one i know has come to faith through me.
often sermons on evangelism end up being about 'we must tell people about Jesus' and nothing about how or about how difficult it is. guilt can be high for me in these sermons and i can certainly beat myself up over it!
nowadays i try and be more chilled about it and trust the 'results' to God and keep sowing seeds.
Hi Gav, just keep sowing mate, God knows your heart, that's what counts. Those seeds can take years to bear fruit. Think of flowers, they grow quickly, look and smell pretty, but wither. An oak tree takes years to take root, grow but becomes mighty and lasts for many years. You may be sowing seeds of great oaks. Think of it as you're doing "Eternal Kingdom work", not growing flowers for a season. It took a long, long time for the seeds people sowed in to me to bear fruit.
Same for anyone feeling guilty in Church, God is your only judge, not man. Follow God's eternal plan as closely as you can and you need not fear people.
There's obviously precedent for asking God for success but we do live in the cross-shaped definition of success...Momma T busting it out!! “I do not pray for success, I ask for faithfulness” - Mother Teresa
Michael
Yes, I sort of know what you mean. I think Becky gives a good example of when the preacher caveats things to say, "Some of you..." basically tailoring whatever challenge has just been spoken of to those whom it will apply to.
We also have a habit in our church whereby those not being prayed for will often be the ones doing the praying. Other people set down or go for coffee. The service sort of dissolves rather than coming to a definite conclusion, so it allows for a little more of tactful ministering or being ministered to.
Gavin
Can very much empathise here. I'm quite a clever chappie, but so far no one has been convinced by clever arguments whilst i've been around. My tack has been to keep on being obedient and faithful and taking any opportunities I get to talk about God, my faith, Jesus, or anything church-related and trust that God knows what He's doing with the fruit of it.
I've also been pressing into much more of a work of the holy spirit type of thing, where it sort of trumps a lot of the logical debate if God shows up and a miracle happens by the power of the Spirit.
Just persevere in faith & obedience... it all counts, I reckon.
thanks for your thoughts guys,
God bless,
gav.
Gavin
just a thought i had a few days about what you said here, have you ever prayed the kind of prayers.
lord who do you want me to speak to today?
the other thing is there could be many other Christians who might have reached out to the people you have. and maybe one or 2 of them will bring some of those people to Christ.
the lord uses many people, so like you said you must of been one of them who were sowing seeds.
3 people prayed the sinners prayer with me years ago, i dont know if they were really saved. i havent seen any of them since.
we can only do what we can do, the lord does the rest.
Hi Gavin,
Just to add to the encouragements from others - in many ways I'm in the same situation as you on the evangelism front! As already said God could well, and I'd argue most likely is, using you as part of a bigger plan - but just because you may not get to see the end result or understand where things are going all the time doesn't mean that you're not doing a good job :-)
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Yes I've had that feeling before, worse if there's a call to 'respond' by standing or going to the front, where if you stay put you feel everyone's thinking you must have serious pride issues! Which can make you want to 'respond' so as not to look like a complete rebel. I've also heard sermons where the speaker has said something like 'If you're not struggling with this, that's great - maybe God just wants you to be encouraged, or maybe you can help someone who is struggling' - and that's really helpful at taking the pressure off and letting people make an honest response.
It can be even more pressurised if you're being prayed for and someone has a Bible verse or a picture or something for you and you're thinking 'I really don't see how that fits' but you know that saying that would be less awkward than just going, 'mmm' and keeping your eyes shut. Kind of like Job's friends, who kept trying to get him to confess to some mysterious sin he hadn't committed! Don't get me wrong - being prayed for is normally one of my favourite things, especially if God speaks through it, but it can also go a bit wrong.
Becky