WorshipCentral

With this topic in mind, I've been thinking recently about how God is mystery. In our scientific era, where most things can be easily explained away, we feel like 'mystery' is a bit of a cop-out. Tozer reflects that "we are ashamed to wonder, we are afraid to whisper 'mystery'". But actually God has revealed himself as mystery - as THREE IN ONE! Even though there's no neat formula or explanation, the Church has never hesitated to teach God as Trinity. We don't need further proof, or explanation, because He's revealed it! It could only ever have been revealed, as we could never have conceived it. And as we continue to dive further into this mystery, it doesn't lead us to a faith full of holes, but it propels us into worship. Listen to what Paul says in Romans 11: 33 - 36:

“Oh, the depths of the riches of the knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgements, and his paths beyond tracing out! “Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counsellor?”…For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen.”

Let’s not be ashamed to wonder, but let’s allow the God of mystery to propel us into worship. Part of this can be discussing, getting confused, and pondering on who God is; it often seems the more we try to understand, the further we go into mystery; and then the place we end up in, is worship! What are other people's thoughts and questions about the Trinity?

Paul

Great topic, the Trinity!

Many in the church delight in singing songs that worship God the Father. Still more are entirely happy singing praise to Jesus the Son. However there are some in the church who for whatever reasons feel less comfortable worshipping directly God the Holy Spirit, the third person of the trinity.

Let's chuck out some helpful thoughts and scripture passages on the matter to build our understanding together...

Mart

I think the reason why people are sometimes reluctant to worship the Spirit directly is because there are no Biblical examples of prayers or praise being offered directly and exclusively to Him, whereas there are obvious examples of praise just to the Father or the Son. Biblically it seems that the Spirit is the 'shy' member of the Trinity, in that His job is to direct our hearts and our worship to the Father and the Son - e.g. Galatians 4:6
Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father."

It's the Spirit in our hearts that enables us to cry out to God the Father in praise or prayer.

However the flip-side to that is that it is the Spirit who Jesus sent to be our Counsellor, our Comfort, our Guide - it's Him who inspires prophecy, it's the Spirit who bears fruit in our lives to make us more like Jesus, it's the Spirit who unites us as a body.... for all these things and many more the Spirit is worthy of praise! As the Nicene Creed says:
"with the Father and the Son He (the Spirit) is worshipped and glorified"

For me the key word there is 'WITH' - if we're worshipping the Spirit in context of praising the Father and the Son as well, as one God, that's cool - if we're focussing on the Spirit to the exclusion of the other members of the Godhead we've missed the point of what the Spirit helps us to do.

Probably the most helpful book on all these issues is Robin Parry's excellent and accessible 'Worshipping Trinity' which should be required reading for every worship leader and song-writer!

www.RESOUNDworship.org
Free New Worship Songs

I'll second Matt's book recommendation - Worshipping Trinity is a superb and very thought-provoking book and excellent material for the worship leader who wants to help people grasp this subject and appreciate the fullness of God.

Wulf

--
Bassist for The Elusive Teeth, The Pico Brown Five and Hither Green Baptist Church

Thanks guys. Very helpful. Just ordered Robin Parry's book there at very little cost. Bargain holiday reading methinks!

So to push you further on the WITH issue there Matt, in terms of song-writing, would you feel it inappropriate to write a song that focussed entirely on the Holy Spirit and His work? Do you think He, in His 'shyness' perhaps, would feel that to be inappropriate? Maybe He would of course, but then the other two Persons of the Godhead may not!? :-)

Mart

What about songs that address all Three? We quite often sing songs about or to the Father and/or Son (less often to the Spirit), but we rarely have songs that address all three. Yet NT Wright and most songwriting events have been highlighting this area as lacking for quite a few years... so why do we not see these songs? Any thoughts?

Here's some of my recent ponderings:
I recently finished (well at least for now) writing a kids worship song on the Trinity - it didn't start out as a kids song but whilst discussing the idea with another songwriter it seemed that, as adults, we are in some ways quite uncomfortable singing about the idea that we don't understand our trinitarian God (even those who expand on the Trinity wonderfully still cannot basically fit three into one).

So when I got down to dusting off and trying to finish this song recently I passed it round to a few people to check theologically it was a real struggle for them as they tried to critique a concept that is somewhat beyond us! Their end conclusion was that they could find nothing wrong with it, in fact they fully agreed with it, but still could still felt slightly uncomfortable.

This is partly why I went the route of a kids song, I wondered whether with adults we are uncomfortable singing about the mystery within the Trinity? If so should we be? So I wondered whether one option is to incorporate this in kids worhsip and so invest in the future...

I'm just curious to know what other people think...

Hi Mart, no, I don't think that songs addressed to the Holy Spirit are wrong by any means, though to be honest I can't think of that many that already exist! There's the old 'Spirit of the living God, fall afresh on me' one, and Tim's 'Consuming Fire' - but even in those two the Spirit is described as the Spirit of God, or the Breath of God i.e. still in the context of the Godhead. Even if you had a song just addressed to the Spirit, I wouldn't have a problem with that at all, but it would be a bit weird (and yes, would be in danger of being unbalanced IMO) if you had a whole meeting where you only sang songs directed to the Spirit, the sermon was only about the Spirit etc etc. So that's what I mean about 'WITH' - it's the context of the whole meeting, not necessarily just one song.

I find where song-writers are more prone to slip-ups is in confusing members of the Trinity e.g. 'Father I thank you, you gave your life for me' (no he didn't, that was Jesus)

One other potential area of danger is where everything becomes entirely and solely Jesus-focussed. That might sound a bit of an odd thing to say as a Christian, but the truth is that Jesus came to reveal the Father (Matt 11:27) and to make a way to the Father - he taught us to pray 'Our Father...' and so on. Sometimes in our meetings we can sing just to Jesus, pray just to Jesus, ask Jesus to send His Spirit etc etc - and the Father doesn't get a look in.

Anyway, have a read of Worshipping Trinity and it'll say all this stuff much better than I can!

www.RESOUNDworship.org
Free New Worship Songs

Hi Nath, have you got the lyrics of that song easily to hand? It'd be interesting to have a read of a Trinitarian kid's song! :)

www.RESOUNDworship.org
Free New Worship Songs

Hi Matt - the lyrics are below...
Stylistically it's arranged pop-punk (in my head!!) but being an acoustic-guitar-toting-west-country-boy it doesn't sound that way when I play it!! I do like the idea of worship good in the midst of our limited understanding of him.
It starts with the chorus.
OK I'm waffling here it is!! Thanks for taking an interest.

1 2 3 (The Trinity Song)

1 – 2 – 3 You’re the trinity: Father, Spirit, Son
1 – 2 – 3 Holy trinity, there’s no other one

When I’m at school I do maths, I get my homework done
Yeah I can add and subtract, I can do all my sums
No matter how hard I try, I can’t fit 3 into 1
God only knows how it’s done

1 – 2 – 3 You’re the trinity: Father, Spirit, Son
1 – 2 – 3 Holy trinity, there’s no other one

The Father so loved the world He gave His only Son
He died and rose for my sin He’s alive in Heaven
His Spirit lives inside me so I will never be alone
Praise You God the Three in One

1 – 2 – 3 You’re the trinity: Father, Spirit, Son
1 – 2 – 3 Holy trinity, there’s no other one

[bridge]
One God, You rule, all three of You (x4)

(PS not intentionally but I think the title and 1st line would also mean it's listed first in any songbooks, with would make publishers very happy indeed!! haha!)

Hi Nath, I think that is brilliant. Really very very good indeed. Can't see any theological flaws in it... and I'm generally pretty picky with those things :)

The second verse is particularly good - because it shows the Trinity in action, and that is fundamentally the only way we can even begin to understand the Trinity, by seeing it as relationship within the Godhead, rather than an abstract mathematical problem that lacks a solution. If you've got chords and an mp3 that you didn't mind sharing I'd love to get hold of it - you can email me at matt@ the website below. Thanks for sharing!

www.RESOUNDworship.org
Free New Worship Songs